An interesting Whatsapp Chat
Uddhav: This is what i replied to a friend who asked this:
Uddhav: Intelligence : बुद्धी
Intelligence is that which creates ignorance in the SELF
Intelligence is subtler than mind and hence just like mind, intelligence lacks a definition
Pure intelligence reflects TRUTH and impure intelligence reflects ego and the accompanying world
Intelligence is behind the appearance of non dual awareness as dual form of individual (जीव ) + world ( जगत)
intelligence is the force that propels static absolute into dynamic kinetic
The unseen force contained within the seed that transforms earth, sunlight , water and air into a tree
स्तिथ-प्रग्य (stith-pragya) is the state when one abides in intellect and one is conscious of both, internal as well as external world
Intelligence is an attribute of SELF and as we cant conceive of fragrance of a rose without a rose, or as we cant conceive of taste of a mango without a mango, idea of intelligence is essentially knitted with the absolute itself
Madhav: Atul let's go one step at a time. Not so fast
Remember always, I am just a seeker just like you and no more. And I have the same questions you have.
“Intelligence is that which creates ignorance in the SELF”
Uddhav - did you say that or you quoted somebody else ?
Uddhav: I said that
Madhav: Why do you think so?
Because until now, I thought it was the Jiva which is ignorant & not the Self. 🤔🤔
Uddhav: Jiva exists in self,what is that force which makes self take himself is jiva......that is called as ignorance
Self because of ignorance takes himself to be jiva
Intelligence (maya shakti) creates ignorance in self
Maya is contained within self......not apart from it.....maya can be called as intelligent power of lord that hides his true nature
Madhav: Now I am even more confused
1.Jiva exists in The Self
2.Maya (intelligence) also also within Self.
existence of both is due to or dependant on Self.
And yet they have power over the Self?
How & why?
Uddhav: What do you mean when you say "they have power over the self"
Madhav: You said just that "maya (intelligence ) creates ignorance in Self"
so maya must have power over Self ? Else how can it create ignorance in the Self !
Uddhav: Intelligence has two functions : first it hides the SELF (what is) , second it projects the jiva + jagat (what isn't)
maya is represented by devi (shakti) in hinduism..... and i am sure you must have seen the portrait where kali is standing with her leg on shiva's chest while shiva is lying on the ground ......that is to portray that devi has power over self....... this power is given to devi by self itself
In reality, both are one........consciousness at rest is SELF and consciousness in motion is jiva + world
Madhav: Ok. A little I understood.
Intelligence (Maya) has 2 functions -
1. To Hide the Self (what is)
2. To Project jiva plus Jagat. (what isn't)
but now I need to understand the below so please explain
1. To hide the Self from whom?
2. To project the Jiva +Jagat for Whom?
Uddhav: Aapko uttar pata hai
Madhav: No Seriously, Nahi patta Uddhav varna kyon puchta?
Kabhi Kabhi lagta hai ki uttar mil gaya aur dusre hi kshan me lagta hai ki nahi.
Yehi to uljhan hai
Uddhav: Hide the self from jiva
Project jiva + jagat for the self
“Aum sthiraye namah”
This is what shiva sahasranama starts with.... salutations to that which is still (constant, non moving)
shiva is at rest...... shakti is in motion.....
And this dynamism is created by maya / intelligence...... .inherent in the self
Maya is power of Lord that keeps the "lila" going
Uddhav: Dimaag ke domain ke bahar ka khel hai sir, reason will only confuse, what is required is internal stillness......only then the knot of heart can open up.......
Madhav: Yeh kahi pada hai maine. Shayad "Amrutanubhav" me
When Shiv (Self) is asleep Shakti (Maya) is at play or emerges out of the Self . When Shiv (Self) awakens Skakti (Maya ) is destroyed or merges back into the self.
Yes I remember reading that.
But doesn't it only prove that absence or presence of Shakti (Maya) doesn't have any effect on Shiv (Self). It's just a phenomenon Maya can never create any ignorance or knowledge in the Self
For instance take a Mirage
The Mirage appears due to the Sun but the Sun is neither aware nor affected by the Mirage
Uddhav: Yes, bilkul sateek
Shiv तटस्थ हैं, the eternal subject
Mere presence of sun leads to so much phenomenon on earth.....but sun is unconcerned and it doesn't do anything consciously... its mere presence stirs up so much of activity
Shiv bhi aise hi hain.....sirf dekhne waale...... dikhne wala sab drama hai
Madhav: Uddhav aapne to mera ek question to clear kar diya.
Shiva (Self) is unaffected by Shakti(Maya) . rather Shiva (Self) is neither aware nor Concerned about existence of Shakti (Maya ) and illusions (Jagat) caused by play of Shakti (Maya)
Shiva (Self) is deep in self meditation, in its own bliss, when Shiva(Self) comes out of meditation, all is destroyed. All merges in him again, Shakti(Maya) and this illusion called Jagat (which also includes this pseudo Self called Jiva)
I really am indebted to you for clarifying my queries Uddhav. Thank you
By the way what do you do Uddhav ,for a living?
Uddhav: My background is IIT + IIM .....but i left corporate and social life long back
Didnt marry and the whole life is devoted to sadhna
I teach underprivileged kids and serve at an ngo for sustaining myself
I spent couple of years in himalayas before re-engaging with the world
Madhav: Well Atul, It's my previlage to know you .
Some day, I too like you would love to spend some time in the Himalayas alone and away from the humdrum.
I'm married & have 2 children. Work for a living.
Keep up the good work you are doing of imparting education. Nothing better in this mortal world than imparting Knowledge.
May God be with you in always in all your endevours.
Madhav: Oh Beautiful DP Uddhav. You have kept.
I recognize Ramkrishna & Neem Karoli Baba, who is the third in the picture ?
Uddhav: Third is ramana maharishi
Uddhav: Thanks madhav ji, its nice to get in touch with seekers of truth
May the light be with us all
Madhav: Please call me Madhav (no ji please). As I call you Atul.
Yes May the light of the Self be with us all , on our individual paths & lead us to the Self.
Uddhav: Good night Madhav, nice exchange of ideas
------------- would like to know your views on this conversation --------------------------